RE: Peugeot 504 Cabriolet Fuel Injection problems
From: Karydas (karydas@hol.gr)
Date: Sun 18 Sep 2005 - 04:15:41 EDT
Hello from Athens, Greece
If you send me another e-mail address I will forward you a copy of the
Kugelfischer manual that was kindly sent to me by another list member.
I believe it is too big for yahoo to accept, five massages of 1 MB each.
You should also go to www.504.org <http://www.504.org/> and download
all the workshop/repair manuals from the tech section. Once you have
all these tools, your (very difficult) task will be a bit easier.
Specifically to your problem:
* The Kugelfischer has an electrovalve, which is a sort of a cold
start injector. This squirts fuel every time you turn on the ignition,
which is fine when the engine is cold, but if it is warm it floods and
won't starts. Install a simple switch which disables the electrovalve
and engage it only for cold starts. Till then you can open your hood
and unplug it as soon as your engine starts. All this will make sense
once you have the workshop manuals in your hands. (This is described in
Chapter 1, "Engine") This will alleviate your hot re-start problem, but
not any of the others you describe. This is what you should do before
you get into any more costly and time consuming repairs.
* Measure fuel pressure as described in chapter 1 of the workshop
manual.
* Take down ALL the components up to the injection pump inlet,
including the fuel tank. Clean the fuel tank, get all new fuel hoses
and filters (there are two filters, one in the back, one in the engine
bay). Check the fuel pumping rate of the Bosch fuel pump by connecting
it to a battery, immersing the inlet hose in a jar with fuel and the
outlet hose in some sort of a container with a known volume (can of
Coke, for example). It should be turning smoothly and fairly quietly.
Reverse the polarity by switching the two wires connecting it to the
battery, now your outlet hose has become the inlet and you can
back-flush the pump. Reconnect everything and check fuel pressure again.
* Replace the oil in the KF injection pump reservoir. First drain
it then fill and flush it a couple of times with new oil. You can use
10W motor oil as recommended in the manual, many people in-the-know
prefer ATF.
* Clean all pump screen filters (five that I can think of, check
the manuals).
* With the engine running at idle, loosen the oil feed line from
the engine to the bottom of the KF pump to make sure there are no air
pockets, then re-tighten.
* Remove and check the injectors, and the electrovalve. If the
electrovalve is leaking it COULD be causing all your problems by
continuously flooding the engine. They are impossible to find (I had to
repair mine, talk about surgery!). If it is leaking, block the fuel
line to it until you find a replacement, it will be the same as starting
without a choke.
* Replace all vacuum hoses even if they look ok, then check the
vacuum of your system with an inline gauge.
I hope these steps will eliminate your problem, but if they don't rest
assured that they are a necessary part of your maintenance. Make sure
you check emissions with an exhaust gas analyzer, both at idle and high
rpm's.
I've got a couple of questions:
1) Is there anyone in the UK who can overhaul my fuel pump (not the
injection pump but the one near the fuel tank.
2) Is there an alternative pump I can use? What about a pump off a
Triumph TR6 or 2.5 saloon that had the Lucas mechanical fuel
Replacement fuel pumps are hard to find, but if yours does not work
well, install any inline pump (like a T-Rex for example) after it and a
two bar fuel pressure regulator.
Here is my recommendation. Go to www.504cc.com and find a parts car
(coupes are cheaper). France is nearby, and it will save you a lot of
money in the long run. It is a beautiful car, but can be very
frustrating at times, especially if you cannot find parts, and the
Kugelfischer is a nightmare to keep in good order. Most technicians who
can service it are retired or dead, there are no replacement injectors,
rebuilding the pump costs 2000 euros, and frankly, I do not think it
runs better than a well tuned carburated system. I have a 72 4-door and
a 73 coupe and, when they are both in good tune, the coupe is a bit
faster, but not smoother. You should prepare yourself for a long fight
with the KF system, most people I know have switched to fuel injection
or carburation. The most common solution is an XN6 engine with k
jetronic injection and five speed transmission from a 505 (straight
swap) if you care more about reliability than you do for originality.
Well, I could go on and on, but I type with two fingers so I have to
sign off now. Good luck and enjoy your beautiful car.
Thanos
,
-----Original Message-----
From: peugeot-L@yahoogroups.com [mailto:peugeot-L@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of grahamf505
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 2:33 AM
To: peugeot-L@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Peugeot 504 Cabriolet Fuel Injection problems
I've recently bought a very nice 504 cabriolet with the Kugelfischer
fuel injection. I'm trying to sort out some problems with hot
starting and the engine cutting out and refusing to re-start when it
gets hot. Symptoms are it just drops back to tickover and no power
at all - I can't get the revs up at all and then it won't re-start
for about half hour.
I've changed all the the HT circuit so I'm suspecing fuel. I know my
fuel pump is leaking slightly and maybe I'm losing fuel presure when
it gets hot. Other symptoms are that it won't run above about 3000
rpm when hot when I floor the accelerator - it just misfires and
loses power.
I've got a couple of questions:
1) Is there anyone in the UK who can overhaul my fuel pump (not the
injection pump but the one near the fuel tank.
2) Is there an alternative pump I can use? What about a pump off a
Triumph TR6 or 2.5 saloon that had the Lucas mechanical fuel
injection system fitted?
Any help would be greatly welcomed because when its running nicely
its a fantastic car. The 1971cc engine really is smooth with fuel
injection and much better than the old carb 1971cc motor I had on my
505 Estate
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