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Young Man;
Your long winded presentation or sermon is viewed with great concern. It =
reveals an emotional involvement or perhaps a hurt feeling acct my note =
to Sandy. I happen to be an Electromechanical Engineer not given to =
loose talk or chimeras. I do my own work, exactly because I value my =
time. The mechanics I know are now my friends thru mutual respect, they =
my do heavy work of removing and replacing an engine to take to Accurate =
Machine in my pick up truck. These mechanics hands are never angry, they =
move competently, deliberately and efficiently. A labor estimate is =
contigent upon the actual time it will take to do the job, not what the =
book says it will take .... gougers and shade tree mechanics take that =
route, as well as emphasize their craftiness, perhaps with a deep voice.
Now about myself again, suffice to explain that hand & power tools =
are on a perfboard, Impact wrench & large tools on a shelf of the work =
bench, floor jack underneath that shelf. Shelves, 4-high run 2/3 the =
length of the garage and are loaded with 504 D, Isuzu I-Mark D and =
Toyota Diesel Pickup parts in deep boxes. My electonic instrumentation, =
and Shop Manuals reside in a small credenza which shares the den with my =
Ham Radio Station/Computer Set up. In fact the digital Torque Wrench is =
backed off to zero, wiped clean, replaced, in its original box, and =
sleeps under my bed, alongside the micrometers and other measuring =
instruments. Do you do as much for your equipment? May I visit your =
shop?
Now, for the difference: I now obtain new parts incidental to business =
trips or visits to Paris where my Peugeot concessionaire, gives 20 to =
30% discount depending on whether it a stock part or a special order. Of =
course, either call in or fax my list ahead of time. Now I am exploring =
the possibility of after market parts from a firm in Paris. However, the =
504D is still being produced, so these cars which I've owned since new =
or nearly so, should last me until, a believable/reasonably priced =
Diesel, Fuel Cell or CNG car makes itsappearance/reappearance and proves =
itself in Our United States.
In the meantime, Sandy must make his/her own research and decide on a =
suitable course. All the free advice should help instead of cloud the =
subject.
Good day,
John Chaker
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From: MTAYLOR.US.ORACLE.COM <MTAYLOR@us.oracle.com>
To: peugeot@tesla.tor.ec.gc.ca
Date: Wednesday, April 30, 1997 5:02 PM
Subject: mi16 broken timing belt
John,
Your figures are way off base for rebuilding the head and your =
additional work
of adding a replacement clutch and changing the front and rear main =
seals
would most certainly close to double the cost of the head repair, not
something Sandy appears to be interested in right now. I can sympathise =
with
getting a second opinion, but the most that would be saved would be in =
the
area of $100 for head removal, and climbing to the bottom of a waiting =
list to
boot.=20
As for the additional work while the head is off, you can add at least =
10-15
hours of work for a pro to remove and replace the transmission to fix =
the
clutch that is working now. There is very little overlap of tasks for =
doing
both of these jobs, so all additional work to remove the trans is =
applicable,
and there is much of it.=20
For parts availability, there simply is no source that I was able to =
find that
acrried any gaskets or rebuilding parts. You must be ordering most of it
through Peugeot or use one of the hard working parts sources on this =
list if
you are going to be successful at finding aftermarket parts for the =
Mi16.
(peugeotogo@aol.com, peugeotlew@aol.com) These guys can find some things =
that
saves someone a few bucks, but not most of the parts. The engine =
rebuilder
that I used had listings for the kits for the engine overhaul, including
piston/liner ass'ys, valves, bearings, gasket sets, but his source did =
not
have access to any of them at a national/regional level. Now comes the =
fun
stuff. The gasket sets are not cheap. The overhaul set (which has very =
little
over what replacing the head needs, namely just one oil pan gasket and =
the
water pump gasket and the two main seal parts as well as two rubber =
seals that
seal the sides of the rear main bearing cap ass'y should be used for the =
head
r&r. You must also purchase a head gasket, sold separately. The cost of =
the
two kits were around US$210. The valves are darn near $30 each, and =
labor is
not free (unless you don't value your own time and do it yourself, then =
it's
almost free.)=20
There is no way that a job of this scope could be done for $300 or even =
$750
(which you said would also be used for replacing the clutch and main =
seals) by
any business. The clutch adds some $250 just for parts, if you get a =
good
deal. Lew provided good prices, but I got the same price locally =
overnight for
those pieces.=20
Sandy, if the car is in good shape, which it should be where you live, =
since
road salt is not used, and acid rain is non-existant barring no volcanic
activity, you should feel justified in spending up to $1400 or so. I =
agree
that over $2K is not justifiable, but a used head could be gotten for =
alot
less, and you could then be driving for less than a $1000 easily. The =
old head
could be used by a heads-up machinist to get ready for the next poor guy =
that
has one go on him, with the machinist or parts reseller listing to the =
mailing
list or being called by a list watcher. If the head was not repairable =
for
reasonable money, maybe multiple heads could be scavenged for cheaper =
parts
than new. The old valve guides are removable, and therefore could be =
salvaged
to be placed into another head. Same with the valves. The correct way to =
deal
with this should be to have the engine builders change the shape of the
pistons to accomodate a fully-open valve. This could be done by using a =
dome
and full relief pocket to allow valve movement past the piston's upper
boundary without sacrifricing chamber volume.
Glen Gurney: Contact Lew Bailie at peugeotlew@aol.com for availability =
of high
compression piston/liner sets. He was working with a hobbyist that was =
placing
an order to England for the sets for his own race engine, who gladly =
offered
to piggy-back the pieces for me onto his order. The lead time was 14 =
days or
so across the Atlantic, dunno about South Pacific times. Possibly, there =
are
sources closer to you for the same parts. The price I was quoted was =
around
US$1600 for a set of pistons, rings, wrist (or gudgeon) pins and liners.
Luckily, I did not need them and am already back on the road before I =
could
have had them shipped in.=20
One side note about the pistons and liners: you can change these on the
vehicle without removing the crankshaft, making fairly short work of it. =
Mike Taylor
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Young Man;
Your long winded presentation or sermon is viewed with great concern. = It=20 reveals an emotional involvement or perhaps a hurt feeling acct my note = to=20 Sandy. I happen to be an Electromechanical Engineer not given to loose = talk or=20 chimeras. I do my own work, exactly because I value my time. The = mechanics I=20 know are now my friends thru mutual respect, they my do heavy work of = removing=20 and replacing an engine to take to Accurate Machine in my pick up truck. = These=20 mechanics hands are never angry, they move competently, deliberately and = efficiently. A labor estimate is contigent upon the actual time it will = take to=20 do the job, not what the book says it will take .... gougers and shade = tree=20 mechanics take that route, as well as emphasize their craftiness, = perhaps with a=20 deep voice.
Now about myself again, suffice to explain that hand & power = tools are=20 on a perfboard, Impact wrench & large tools on a shelf of the work = bench,=20 floor jack underneath that shelf. Shelves, 4-high run 2/3 the length of = the=20 garage and are loaded with 504 D, Isuzu I-Mark D and Toyota Diesel = Pickup parts=20 in deep boxes. My electonic instrumentation, and Shop Manuals reside in = a small=20 credenza which shares the den with my Ham Radio Station/Computer Set up. = In fact=20 the digital Torque Wrench is backed off to zero, wiped clean, replaced, = in its=20 original box, and sleeps under my bed, alongside the micrometers and = other=20 measuring instruments. Do you do as much for your equipment? May I visit = your=20 shop?
Now, for the difference: I now obtain new parts incidental to = business trips=20 or visits to Paris where my Peugeot concessionaire, gives 20 to 30% = discount=20 depending on whether it a stock part or a special order. Of course, = either call=20 in or fax my list ahead of time. Now I am exploring the possibility of = after=20 market parts from a firm in Paris. However, the 504D is still being = produced, so=20 these cars which I've owned since new or nearly so, should last me = until, a=20 believable/reasonably priced Diesel, Fuel Cell or CNG car makes=20 itsappearance/reappearance and proves itself in Our United States.
In the meantime, Sandy must make his/her own research and decide on a = suitable course. All the free advice should help instead of cloud the = subject.
Good day,
John Chaker
----