After reading Matt's reply to mine, I feel I have to set some things
straight.
MA>> I haven't driven an excellent FWD (re: Peugeot), but even a "good" one
MA>> in snow sucks when driven hard. Granted your disclaimer of it being
MA>> better "for the average driver" is totally correct. The coin flips
MA>> when the front wheel drive is pushed to it's limits. I find driving
MA>> fast (snow and ice) to be frightening. I can drive quickly (7/10 ths)
MA>> and be fine, push any further and its scary. Once you lose traction,
MA>> all you can really do is back off and hope to God it grabs as you plow
MA>> through the corner.
MA>I can understand this attitude with little or no front wheel drive
MA>experience.
You'll have to understand that I have driven FWD cars since before
legal age (13) now 26, and have thoroughly explored the limits on
several FWD cars. While I don't have the benefit of racing experience,
or with a truly fantastic car (205), I can assure you that my
experiences racing "against the clock" on some amazing rally roads make
me a more than qualified to comment on the handling potential of a FWD
car. The e-brake.....been there, done that. Effective but lacks the
control of "throttle induced oversteer" I'm also curious as to your
(Matt's) experience racing on snow covered logging roads?
MA>> I would love to race an Mi-16 on a race course, with an equal power to
MA>> weight ratio (even just close), similiar tires, and put the debate to
MA>> a rest. I would put my money on the 505. (This would make for a
MA>> Great PCNA meet). We should partner up with another car club (that rents
MA>> race circuits), and have a race day! We could safely test the cars
MA>> abilities as well as our own. Even if we did our own autocross, and
MA>> raced against the clock, it would be interesting who get's the
MA>> quickest time? This type of race may suit the Mi 16 more, but I'd like
to see
MA>> the results. If the race were a rally, the 505's would spank the
MA>> 405's!
MA>The only reply I have to this is that when our local Peugeot Club gets
MA>together for a Motorsport event, the results usually look like this:
MA>1st 205 GTi
MA>2nd 205 GTi
MA>3rd 205 GTi
MA>4th 405 MI-16
MA>5th 405 MI-16
What motorsports do you compete in? Autocrossing? Any longer distance
road racing?
MA>Unfortunately we never got the V6 Turbo 505 here, things may be
MA>different then, but I doubt it, if the MI-16 and 505 V6 Turbo have
MA>similar power to weight ratios my Money would be on a 405 MI-16 no
MA>question. Assuming both have similar power outputs a naturally aspirated
MA>car, in my opinion, will outperform a Turbo one due to better
MA>drivabilty, no turbo lag etc.
Just wanted to clarify that 505 Turbo, and 505 V6 are different cars.
There are no V6 turbos (I only dream about those)
Even if the race were a rally assuming
MA>both cars were well prepared my money would still be on the 405. The 205
MA>however is still superior to both (yes I'm biased) the 205 has a much
MA>better power to weight ratio, sharper handling and better
MA>manouverability even without power steering! In this situation if the
MA>race was a Rally the 205 would spank just about anything!
Please don't throw the 205 into this comparison, it is an orange when
we are trying to compare apples. Also many Aussie's have commented
that they never got very many 505 turbos, or V6's if any at all. I
highly doubt comparing the Mi-16 to a XN6 505 is very fair! Also the
505 Turbo or V6 never became popular with the after market, so even if
I wanted to race a 505 T or V6, I'd have to do a lot of fabrication for
stuff 405 owners can order on the phone. I believe the potental; of
these cars has never been fully tapped.
MA>I regularly race my 205 against many much more powerful RWD "Performance
MA>Cars" and regularly beat them, much to their dismay, if its circuit is
MA>wet then there are very few that come even close.
Every car has it's ideal track, on another track different those cars
may come out on top.
MA>A question for those of you out there that either have both a 505 V6
MA>Turbo and an MI-16 or have driven both extensively which handles better?
I'd like to know too!
I would also like to say that neither of us is wrong because we are
both biased to great cars, however, a particular driver will find
comfort in certain qualities in a car's handling, while another driver
needs a totally different set up to feel comfortable. These two
drivers could easily race the same circuit, in different cars and get
very close results. A good diver in a 405 Mi-16 can beat a poor driver
in a 505 Turbo. Likewise a good driver in a 505 Turbo can easily beat
the poor driver in an Mi-16. I know my strengths, and I love the
505/504's for their qualities.
Thanks for reading my rantings!
Rabin James