Re: Re: RE PSU students in need of peugeot info-warning! semi-political ranting
From: Jürgen Roterberg (bagheera@freenet.de)
Date: Wed 20 Nov 2002 - 23:36:57 EST
My feeling was to be surprised but for all satisfied to read something
different and critical in compare to some views out of the German TV that
sometimes seem to show a mass of sheeps that wordless agree to a lot of
propaganda.
Don´t wish more control by a government - one of the main reason of much
problems over here you have in beeing a car-enthusiast is that everybody
like to have ruled everything by a law - as long nobody else is able to move
himself as he likes to do. Everybody over here in Germany is happy about
somebody who is specialized in repairing his car - but good heavens not
directly in your neighborhood !
Jürgen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank DeWitt" <fdew@eznet.net>
To: "Joseph Ashment" <wyofisher@earthlink.net>; "John Crowe (AT&T)"
<crowejw@att.net>
Cc: "Peugeot" <peugeot-L@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 5:03 AM
Subject: Re: Re: RE PSU students in need of peugeot
info-warning! semi-political ranting
> Thank you, Thank you Thank you. Very well written
>
> We need LESS government. We have a great constitution that has served us
> well. we need to go back to it, not further away.
>
> Because of this list I will leave the issue of Bush and oil alone except
to
> recommend a goggle search of "Al gore Oil "
> (The above sentence will bring an immediate request that we stop this
> inapproiate thread.)
>
> Frank DeWitt
>
>
>
> At 09:47 PM 11/20/2002, Joseph Ashment wrote:
> >I've been debating wether or not to respond. Oh, well.
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >
> > > I remember the 60's..... Grew up outside of NYC..... On hot summer
days it
> > > would get so bad that the radio would announce high air pollution from
> > > thermal inversion and recommend that we not go outside that
evening.... I
> > > guess it isn't that bad anymore, but it is still too much..... I was
> > > recently in Toronto, otherwise known as "The Big Smoke", and found the
air
> > > there pretty thick....
> > >
> > > There are other elements to pollution as well..... Way too many
highways
> > > with Way too many cars....
> >
> >Who are you or who is our government to say how we can travel in our
"free"
> >country. We are free to drive a car, any car we choose. We are free to
use
> >public transportation, as crime ridden and cumbersom as it is. We are
even
> >free to ride our bicycles. No one has the right or should ever have the
> >right to tell us we can't drive an SUV, or to throw away the "Gross
> >Polluting" older vehicles like our Peugeots. We, the people should ask
our
> >auto manufactures to sell us some less polluting powerplants and fuel
> >options, we should not have the government force people out of old cars
> >(including Peugeots) and the "evil" SUV. On a side note, had the
government
> >not forced CAFE standards on auto makers, we would still have the big
> >station wagon and the market niche for the SUV would not have been
created.
> >We had to get people out of the big polluting station wagon (the SUV
> >arguement has been used before!)
> >
> > >
> > > There is also the problem of becoming so "dependent" on foreign
oil......
> > > Here we are about to go into Iraq to force a "regime" change of
someone we
> > > helped install years ago because we were trying to get at Iran....
> >
> >Right! Our socialistic "representatives" decided for us, the Americans,
> >that is would be benificial, for us, to install a little madman in Iraq.
If
> >we kept better control of our Republic and held politicians accountable
to
> >the Constitution, this would never had happened.
> >
> > >
> > > The government here in the states should be a little more
socialistic....
> > > What it has done for us so far is mostly for big business.... Southern
> > > California used to have a terrific Light Rail Transit system earlier
in
> >the
> > > century..... Our government in collusion with Standard Oil and General
> > > Motors eliminated the right of ways and now there is difficulty in
finding
> > > new ones.... Our government has heavily subsidized the airline
industry
> > > while at the same time saying that the rail system should make it on
it's
> > > own.... Nevermind that it takes 10 times as much fuel to move people
and
> > > freight that way....
> > >
> >
> >No! No! Never allow more government. Especially a socialist one. Keep
> >government small and local. This is what is written in Constitution,
this
> >is what our Founding Fathers tried to give us in the American Legacy. If
we
> >the people had participated in the government like the Founding Fathers
> >thought we would, we would never have need or want for a bigger or even
> >socialist government. We do we keep giving up our freedom in trade for
more
> >tax eating government programs? You want to fix the transportation and
> >pollution problems? Do it the Free Market style, don't buy the vehicle
that
> >you think is harmful to the environment. Automakers will change their
> >selection of models to accomadate our changing tastes. Does this explain
> >the demise of Peugeot in America?
> >
> >
> > > It is the semi-oligarchy of Rockefellers and Bushes that have really
> >driven
> > > what our government has done to a great extent.... We have had great
open
> > > spaces to expand in, but in many places it is quickly closing in....
Are
> > > there equivalent energy barons in France.....???... Or in
> >Europe....???....
> > > I know that France has a significant interest in oil in Iraq.... Have
they
> > > played around in the government there the way that the English and
> >Americans
> > > have done....???... I understand that France has held back on the U.S.
> > > resolve to take out Saddam, but is feeling forced to participate
because
> >if
> > > they don't the U.S. and English will control the oil.... France has
never
> > > been into Empires the same way that the English and U.S....
> > >
> > > John Crowe
> >
> >I won't argue about the semi oligarchy. We could stop it if we had
> >maintained our Republic properly.
> >We would not have allowed our government to build into the beaurocracy
that
> >grants political favors for campaign donations and we would not have
allowed
> >politicians (Demacrats and Republicans alike) to get in bed with the
> >companies that bankrolled their elections.
> >With the exception of pushing the Indians out, and the War of Northern
> >Aggression, America has never been empirical. We have never crossed the
> >oceans to create empires. We have, when attacked, smashed other
countries,
> >but in an unemperical way we rebuilt the conquered countries instead of
> >raping them and gave them back sovereignty, and the gift of a Democratic
> >Republic form of government.
> >
> >It is not you personally, John Crowe, that I argue against. I argue
against
> >the ideology. I wish and hope you consider these ideas of mine with an
open
> >mind. The price of Liberty is eternal vigilance.--Thomas Jefferson
> >
> >Joe Ashment
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Joseph Ashment" <wyofisher@earthlink.net>
> > > To: "John Crowe (AT&T)" <crowejw@att.net>
> > > Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 3:16 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Peugeot-L] Re: RE PSU students in need of peugeot info
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >I would be happy to pay the fuel prices
> > > > > that European drivers have to pay if it would mean more sensible
cars
> > > and
> > > > a
> > > > > real mass transit system.... If we didn't have a hegemonous
government
> > > run
> > > > > by oil men we would have less war and pollution....
> > > > >
> > > > > John Crowe
> > > >
> > > > You would happily bow to the socialists? Give up the car and get on
the
> > > > overpriced inefficient bus? With the advances in engine technology,
we
> > > are
> > > > actually emmitting less polution than is the 60's despite the fact
that
> > > > there are far more vehicles on the road. Becareful what you let our
> > > > government do.
> > > >
> > > > Joe
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
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