Re: Re: RE PSU students in need of peugeot info-warning! semi-political ranting
From: John Crowe \(AT&T\) (crowejw@att.net)
Date: Sat 23 Nov 2002 - 13:45:34 EST
I had thought the same myself.... It did turn into one of those OT's that
had drifted pretty far from the main subject.... I would like to say that
what had kept my replies going was the depth of the replies..... It seems we
have quite the "brain trust" here on this list.... Lots of good opinions all
and well thought out with substantial information as well....
Thanks,
John Crowe
----- Original Message -----
From: "hugo_steincamp" <norgo@cybertrails.com>
To: <peugeot-L@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2002 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: RE PSU students in need of peugeot info-warning!
semi-political ranting
> This conversation should take place off list. I have deleted my
> message that contributed to this off-topic topic.
>
> Hugo
>
>
>
>
> --- In peugeot-L@y..., "John Crowe \(AT&T\)" <crowejw@a...> wrote:
> > Hugo,
> >
> > I don't like government controlling or restricting us..... I am
> very much a
> > libertarian at heart.... I believe that if the government didn't
> favor
> > corporate interests so much we would be far better off....
> Unfortunately it
> > is much more complicated than that.... Powerful interests with all
> there
> > money are able to control in more ways than most of us would like to
> > think....
> >
> > Without going into a diatribe about it I will point out an
> inconsistency
> > which most people are not aware.... The "government" supports air
> travel
> > with a lot of tax dollars yet has balked considerably at supporting
> rail
> > transit.... I remember the latest serious decline of rail came when
> Reagan
> > was in office and made a big deal about how much the government was
> support
> > railroads and how we should wean them from the public dole.... At
> the time
> > it was something like $.25 per passenger mile.... Unsaid and
> unknown to most
> > was the fact the government subsidy of air was about $.40 per
> passenger
> > mile.... The decline of rail goes back to the growth spurt in the
> > military/industrial complex right around WWII.... Before this
> period rail
> > was seen as vital to our nations interest and our rail
> infrastructure was in
> > very good shape.... Beginning in the '40s air was seen as more
> important and
> > the flow of money to build air ports and develop that infrastructure
> > began.....
> >
> > John Crowe
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "hugo_steincamp" <norgo@c...>
> > To: <peugeot-L@y...>
> > Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 8:29 PM
> > Subject: Fw: [Peugeot-L] Re: RE PSU students in need of peugeot
> > info-warning! semi-political ranting
> >
> >
> > > John:
> > >
> > > I agree with you on this issue. The environment is serious
> trouble -
> > > the biosphere as we know it is now is on the way out - and
> > > considering the depth of the crisis, we will soon no longer have
> the
> > > freedom to be wasteful of critical resources (and thus to be
> idiotic.
> > > The more intelligent we are now in what we choose to drive now
> will
> > > result in less government restrictions on motoring choice in the
> > > futre. But the solution to people choosing to drive SUVs that get
> 15
> > > mpg is not punitive government regulation: a combination of
> > > education, government supporting technological shift, and
> financial
> > > incentives is required move to a more environmental benign form of
> > > transportation. The size of government doesn't necessarily
> restrict
> > > freedom, but what a government (no matter its size) does and and
> does
> > > not do, does curtail freedom. I'm off topic of Peugeot, but the
> idea
> > > that the government supporting the shift to more intelligent
> modes of
> > > transportation will automatically reduce freedom is simplistic and
> > > requires a response.
> > >
> > > Hugo Steincamp
> > > '87 505 STX 24 mpg
> > > '00 Honda Civic - 35-40 mpg
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In peugeot-L@y..., "John Crowe \(AT&T\)" <crowejw@a...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes..... The native peoples in this area of the country have a
> > > saying:
> > > >
> > > > "In our every deliberation we must consider the impact of our
> > > decisions on
> > > > the next seven generations" - From the Great Law of the
> Iroquois
> > > > Confederacy
> > > >
> > > > Not sure why they don't go further than that, but the idea is
> > > clear.... The
> > > > same way we want our air and water to be....
> > > >
> > > > John Crowe
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "fred smith" <peugfan@j...>
> > > > > To: <peugeot-L@y...>
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2002 6:34 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Peugeot-L] Re: RE PSU students in need of
> peugeot
> > > > > info-warning! semi-political ranting
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Who? Our grandchildren might be a good starting point.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > fs
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Who are you or who is our government to say how we can
> travel
> > > in our
> > > > > > >"free"
> > > > > > >country.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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